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Randy
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Davy-Boi
This is my opinion and or thoughts based on me Nuss and years of managing my way through broken legs, foot, arm, wrist, detached pec and many other
tough recovery issues. Recovery is simply one tough battle. It has a series of ups followed by downs. All very painful and frustrating but very much
part of any recovery. Your structure I believe to be fine. This is based on our long phone conversation. Here lies your dilemma, again my opinion
only. Recovery is obtained small pieces at a time, bit by bit, slowly and consistently over long durations of time. One must maintain a realistic
DAILY progressive exercise routine which may or MAY NOT initially involve weights. What is important is DAILY / SMALL / SLOW AND PROGRESSIVE. This is
key to any recovery assuming a recovery is possible and not terminal. Based on what you have stated, you do daily walks nearly each day, which is not
only good but in your case necessary. However, these walks as consistent as they may be, they are not progressive in any fashion. Progressive would be
measured by adding events in each walk that demand an increased work load. Example, if you walk 1km at a 8 min pace, progressive would be the same
walk in the afternoon, 1km @ 7:45 pace. Not much but it is progressive and when compounded over months the ‘work” out put is massive and your body
will not even know this. 1km @ 7:30 while bouncing a basket ball the entire walk. 1km @700 while bouncing a basket ball and talking on your blue tooth
the entire walk. This is progressive. 1km @ 7:15 while bouncing a basket ball, talking on blue tooth, and every 30 seconds through a penny on the
ground in front of your walk and bend over and pick it up. This is progressive. This is simple and demanding. Each walk should include a compounded
element forcing your body to work harder forcing swifter recovery. OkOkOK… I have made the point. There are more increments to this progressive
recovery; add at the bottom of each min, that would be at the 30 second make, or opposite 30 sec of picking up the penny…… upper torso twist, to the
left and right 5x each side then resume your walk. See what I am suggesting. This should all be accomplished prior to any heavy duty lung smashing
endurance cardio event. The problem comes into view when we as people whom have had a surgery or set back attempt to do any heavy demanding cardio
with out any pre-conditioning work. The common mind set is as follows: “Man, if I could just do the cardio as before my set back or if I can just come
close to my old record, I will feel pretty good about my self. Many people skip the pre steps and go straight for their old personal records. Only to
face problems. This is quite possibly your case. Some steady moderate regular cardio and then the grind. The grind was too much without a progressive
exercise routine preparing for the grind. I have seen this many times in the gym and each time the person gets slightly hurt. Too much too fast will
wipe a person out for days. Patience with exercise will force recovery.
Pain meds - Take all the oxy plus some to reduce the pain and get you past this set back. Your tough minded so not to worry about becoming dependant
on them. Use your strong mind to develop a plan of progressive training and slowly become pain free.
Randy
well, just taking one day at a time and Praying our Great Country "Gets Back On It's Feet"
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Chelle
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Davy,
your level of pain has me worried for you. Are you sure there isn't something else going on, apart from the nuss bars hurting you?
If I was your mom, I'd be dragging you to the ER to be checked over.
Is anyone with you?
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runs
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Don't mean to disagree with you Randy but I have a question....
Having had my own share of broken wrists, legs and feet isn't the porpose of a cast to mobilize the break so that it can heal almost completely which
also reduces the pain from that process.
Is it at all possible that because a person's body has under gone tramma and a forced change that Davy may not have healed properly and the recent
activities may be continuing to agrivate that process. As.....if his stablizers had never anchored properly that thier continuing movement could be
the cause of his pain.
If I'm wrong I'm wrong but pushing more pain after an already painfull condition might in some way cause perminate damage and not cure the pain
condition that already exists.
Would just like your views on that and really hope Davy can get it all under control...................runs
My question to Davy.....Were you ever pain free after your nuss and if so did your recent pain begin out of activity or inactivity.
I repeat.....I'm only concerned that you find some relief.
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Sinister
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Runs,
I think the most appropriate answer is that honestly nobody can answer this question with any degree of certainty. We can all give our 2 cents and
let Davy give his feedback, but thats about it.
Even a physician could not be 100% sure what is going on. It could be exactly as you say, or as Randy says, or nothing like either, or a combination
of both.
Just hope he gets feeling better!
Nussed 7 Jul 2010 by Pilegaard
Aarhus, Denmark
" Whatever you have, you must make the most of it. Rest assured that you can
transform yourself, no matter where you started from. The most important body part is
the mind.”
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Davy1
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Thanks for the replies.
Well here is the quick update.
I can totally tell there is something weird going on here. Not sure what. RIght now it is during the day. I woke up about 30 minutes ago. Things are
just not right. I am going to my gp tomorrow and demanding to get tests or something done.
Yesterday was a painful day. Was really scared cuz nights are always way worse. Just sat inside nearly all day. In big pain and not eating much. I
felt I had to go for a walk, no matter how slow. So I went real slow and got out of the apartment for about an hour. It was nice to get outside. We
had fresh rain for the first time in at least a month so the air was very fresh and nice to breathe.
I took an oxy before going for the walk. Then I took one about an hour after I got back and then 1 more about an hour after that. Well the pain was
not as bad with all the oxy. It was there but the oxy was doing its trick and if I got in the right position the pain was under control. Still there
but livable. Problem was I could not fall asleep. The oxy was playing its tricks with my mind. Normally I get funny dreams. I guess cuz I could not
sleep my mind was just zooming all over. Finally got about an hours sleep around 4-5 and then slept again from about 7-10.
At the current time just sitting in this chair and typing my pain is going up again. I wont use any more oxy until tonight. I went to the pharmacy and
talked to a woman there.
She brought up the possibility of infection but actually in the bone. I definitely think this is a possibility. With bone infections you dont always
get a fever and not always does it leak out of your system cuz its in the bones. This might explain why the pain jumps so much. I emailed Schaar for a
second time and stressed urgency that I get a response.
Tomorrow I will go to my gp and demand that I get some tests done. I dont like xrays, I have had so many now but I guess I should get one done. Any
other tests you guys think I should have done? I will tell him about bone infection and ask how to test for that as well. So at the current time with
proper rest and slow exercise I do not think this is going to go away. The only other possible type explanation is the change in weather pattern here.
Maybe that does have something to do with my pain. Like how many people with arthritis it bothers them way more when its damp out.
Randy in regards to the cardio, the grind was way to much to quick. I had no idea that cardio could do that much damage. I was mainly concerned about
overdoing it with weights. I look back now and see how silly I was. Wish I could go back in time. However I dont think this is the problem. Maybe it
triggered an underlying problem to come out more??? If the grind was the issue, would I be getting progressively worse day by day 2 weeks later???
Also I did not go for my record. My record is 39:39 done 6 years ago. My first time a few weeks ago I did not even break an hour however that was
still way to much. If I had no nuss bars in I would have done around the same time. To have nuss bars in and do this was stupid at this point. I was
just under the impression that you could only do damage doing weights and not cardio. So ridiculous of me. Anyways I think there is a bigger problem
happening.
For now just making it to tomorrow is my goal. I need to get to the doctor and get answers.
Chelle interesting you said to go to the er. I called my sister yesterday mid day and told her it was 50/50 that I was going. When the oxy relieved
the edge I decided to wait. However if things get worse I am ready to go there at anytime. No one is with me here. My Mom and sister live about 35
minutes away.
Runs after surgery I was in a fair amount of pain for awhile. I was on the oxy for 5 months but a very low dose. At around 5-5.5 months I started to
get way better. Then I was off to Vegas and the lifestyle there is bad and my health started to slip. Was never pain free. It started to get worse
like I mentioned in Vegas due to inactivity. Once back I started to get back into things slowly but could not shake the pain. Then I did the grind and
the pain intensified. I think partly cuz of the grind and also that there is an underlying problem.
Thanks for everyones concern.
Once again if anyone has any ideas on what I should have tested please let me know.
Also Chelle I bought some icyhot so will try it. It might help a bit but thats about it but will try it.
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Randy
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Location: St. Louis MO
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All that has been mentioned is possible, yet what "at this point in time" seems to have provoked this pain? Until notified of any underlying problem
it would be logical to proceed slowly, carefully and cautiously in the direction of, as Schaar says "Movement is Life". That would be continued walks
each day, using oxy to control the pain. Monitoring each passing hour for =,+,or - pain levels. Most likely your pain will subside soon. Most likely
the grind was the cause of this onset of massive pain. Your bars are stable, you have no stabilizers, assuming no other cause for this pain ie,
infection, allergic reaction........there will be noting you can do that will damage your repair, yet improper preparation will cause you great pain
in the short run. All this said is based on my personal experiences with broken body parts, my Nuss recovery, other peoples story's and talking with
Fonkelsrude, Chen, Saltzmen, Colombani's assistant, Schaar, Patino-Meyer, Frank and other surgeons. The highest probability of Davy's pain, is simple,
overtraining without proper preparation. Keep in mind all other "medical" possibilities must be checked into before this amateur opinion can be
confirmed.
A general note on any injury / surgery recovery. Once the initial healing, stabilization is complete, you are safe to do what ever you want. If you go
100% you will suffer pain but not injure your body. Be smart after the initial healing, go slow, each day, weight and cardio very cautiously even if
this "hurts". Once you learn how to safely force your recovery, you will improve exponentially. Until that is achieved fear and frustration will rule.
Be smart here and every one get well fast!!
Randy
well, just taking one day at a time and Praying our Great Country "Gets Back On It's Feet"
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Randy
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Location: St. Louis MO
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Quote: Originally posted by runs  | Don't mean to disagree with you Randy but I have a question....
Having had my own share of broken wrists, legs and feet isn't the porpose of a cast to mobilize the break so that it can heal almost completely which
also reduces the pain from that process.
Is it at all possible that because a person's body has under gone tramma and a forced change that Davy may not have healed properly and the recent
activities may be continuing to agrivate that process. As.....if his stablizers had never anchored properly that thier continuing movement could be
the cause of his pain.
If I'm wrong I'm wrong but pushing more pain after an already painfull condition might in some way cause perminate damage and not cure the pain
condition that already exists.
Would just like your views on that and really hope Davy can get it all under control...................runs
My question to Davy.....Were you ever pain free after your nuss and if so did your recent pain begin out of activity or inactivity.
I repeat.....I'm only concerned that you find some relief. |
Hey Runs
Don't mean to disagree with you Randy but I have a question....
Having had my own share of broken wrists, legs and feet isn't the porpose of a cast to mobilize the break so that it can heal almost completely which
also reduces the pain from that process.
Yes and No. very correct with the cast for immobilization allowing the set bone to fuse and scar. No the cast has nothing to do with the reduction of
pain, nor is any healed broken bone free from pain. 6 months following cast removal, pain can still be very prominent. What your doctor say about
this? This is what I am saying to davy-boi.
Is it at all possible that because a person's body has under gone tramma and a forced change that Davy may not have healed properly and the recent
activities may be continuing to agrivate that process.
Yes and No, Davy along with most nuss patients, the healing process in specific to ‘Flesh wounds” there are no broken bones. Therefore once the
stitches and sutures are set, no tearing or bar dislodgement is likely. Davy has healed properly, his incision are closed and stable.
As.....if his stablizers had never anchored properly that thier continuing movement could be the cause of his pain.
Davy has no stabelizers.
If I'm wrong I'm wrong but pushing more pain after an already painfull condition might in some way cause perminate damage and not cure the pain
condition that already exists.
Looking at the current facts, those available now, along with the wisdom of the surgeons I have spoken plus my personal recovery history, Not likely a
“painful condition” will cause any damage. Remember this case is liken to a broke / set / casted / healed leg, which is still hurting 6 months later.
It’s only pain that one can intensify by jumping and pounding the ground. Is this causing permanent damage or any damage? NO
Would just like your views on that and really hope Davy can get it all under control...................runs
That is my opinion backed with history, it is correct assuming the current facts do not change. Davy is healed, he also is experiencing pain which
will diminish in time. I would assume Davy’s pain is caused by his premature hard core cardio. The onslaught of his lungs crushing against his ribs
and bars may have aggravated the bond between rib + bar + fleshy tissue. This could explain why the pain is all across the chest, but would not
explain why his lower ribs may be hurting. Remember Davy put more stress on his repaired area than he has since pre-nuss and without any progress
preparation. These are my thoughts and how I have treated myself through my many injuries. Smart, consistent, disciplined recovery is to ones best
interest.
Randy
well, just taking one day at a time and Praying our Great Country "Gets Back On It's Feet"
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Chelle
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Hi Davy,
I'm glad you're going to see your gp. I doubt that you have a bone infection, since all this time has now passed, and I'd have thought you'd be very
sick by now if that was so, but by all means, bring it up to your doc for his thoughts. He should test you for it anyway, to rule it out.
My best guess is that you tore something while doing that hike. Don't know what - maybe scar tissue, maybe cartilage between ribs...
Maybe an MRI would be useful? (And, it has no xrays)
I think you need referral to a pain specialist too. Here's why:
http://cme.medscape.com/viewarticle/484371
(read down to the summary at the bottom of the article). I got to this article by doing a google search for 'injury pain cascade)
This 'pain cascade' is what may be happening to you. You'll need help with reversing it, if that's what it is.
Ask the gp if there could be something totally unrelated to your nuss going on, just so he/she does take that into account.
Hope you feel better soon.
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runs
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| Quote: Originally posted by Randy | Davy-Boi
Let me suggest that you do the hike on Monday at all cost! Take lots of Oxy and go on the hike, You have 2 consecutive hikes under your belt, DO NOT
give your chest time to "Feel-Better". Go on the hike all loaded with pain meds and then on Tuesday get out and do a hard walk where your lungs smash
against the bars and ribs. On Wednesday, do another hard walk for half the time of your Tuesday walk. On Thursday, take a little less pain meds and do
the grind again. Do this over and over and over and over and over, dont quit, dont stop, dont give up, keep going going going and going. You will soon
notice that you can go harder, longer, stronger and still have pain but the pain will be less than the current pain. You will even catch your self
when in a relaxed state, experiencing little to no pain. It will be like a light turning on in your head. Wow…. “I just noticed my pain is
significantly reduced”. This will happen not because of the meds but because you are stretching your current physical and pain barrier by continually
smashing your lungs against the ribs and bar. This is what I refer to as “Forced Recovery” You force your body to recovery, you do not sit and wait,
you make it happen. This is one major difficult concept to understand where Im sure many will disagree with out any experience to back their
disagreements. For those who may feel like this, enjoy your pain while those who physically fight pain enjoy pain freedom.
Davy, go force your recovery on Monday.
Randy
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Randy this post and your most recent seem to be totally different from each other. I tend to regard the latter as the one more helpfull to Davy.
Recover first then begin again slowly and causiously.
I think only when Davy listens to his body and does not force himself will he recover and begin to move on and get past this hurdle. (excuse my
spelling)
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runs
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I'd like to add a question for Randy. Since Davy has stated he is waiting for a responce from Dr. Sharr and has not recieved it is there any way to
expediate that. Since his views may be crusial to Davys out come. ie......maybe a phone call rather than an e-mail would bring a quicker
responce.............Thanks
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Randy
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| Quote: Originally posted by runs | | Quote: Originally posted by Randy | Davy-Boi
Let me suggest that you do the hike on Monday at all cost! Take lots of Oxy and go on the hike, You have 2 consecutive hikes under your belt, DO NOT
give your chest time to "Feel-Better". Go on the hike all loaded with pain meds and then on Tuesday get out and do a hard walk where your lungs smash
against the bars and ribs. On Wednesday, do another hard walk for half the time of your Tuesday walk. On Thursday, take a little less pain meds and do
the grind again. Do this over and over and over and over and over, dont quit, dont stop, dont give up, keep going going going and going. You will soon
notice that you can go harder, longer, stronger and still have pain but the pain will be less than the current pain. You will even catch your self
when in a relaxed state, experiencing little to no pain. It will be like a light turning on in your head. Wow…. “I just noticed my pain is
significantly reduced”. This will happen not because of the meds but because you are stretching your current physical and pain barrier by continually
smashing your lungs against the ribs and bar. This is what I refer to as “Forced Recovery” You force your body to recovery, you do not sit and wait,
you make it happen. This is one major difficult concept to understand where Im sure many will disagree with out any experience to back their
disagreements. For those who may feel like this, enjoy your pain while those who physically fight pain enjoy pain freedom.
Davy, go force your recovery on Monday.
Randy
|
Randy this post and your most recent seem to be totally different from each other. I tend to regard the latter as the one more helpfull to Davy.
Recover first then begin again slowly and causiously.
I think only when Davy listens to his body and does not force himself will he recover and begin to move on and get past this hurdle. (excuse my
spelling) |
Hey Runs
Yah, you are very correct, my responses are quite different. My first response to Davy was at his onset of pain. With that being his first complaint I
expressed my opinion, which at that point in time was a great way to keep the momentum of heavy cardio continuing. You see, carefully planned and
executed exercise is accompanied with varying degrees of pain, yet, this forces recovery. Upon Davy’s continued complaints, several text messages,
emails and an extensive phone call. I realized exactly (well 80%) where Davy’s pain was stemming. I have seen this countless times in the gym and
spotted it “Dead-On” in Davy. It is caused from over training with out proper progressive preparation. Simply said, Davy over did it, where some rest
will be required. Here is the devastation of such an event. This scares the heck out of a person, makes their mind play massive tricks on reality,
causes self doubt, recluses a person for fear of “further damage” (where there is actually no damage) It also forces a person to “Point a Finger” at
possible causes of the pain, such as, infection, disease, blood disorder, sudden onset of the unknown killer thing, with out looking closely at what
triggered the pain and looking in the mirror. Why do I say such words, because I HAVE DONE THIS MYSELF, I have seen my friends do this. Here is the
irony of the final result when the pain is all gone. In most cases the person who had experienced the pain will cling on to the “unknown cause” of the
pain, with out uncovering the truth and taking full responsibility for the painful mess.
Once Davy, made it clear to me how much pain he was experiencing, I revised my suggestion. The suggestion was perfect at that point in time, a little
moderate exercise to keep the momentum in place, not stopping some basic form of exercise, while allowing the body to recover. In recovery, we are
moving backward or forward, there is no “Standing Still”. Recovery on the couch after your surgeons suggested time of rest has passed is lost time,
one is moving backwards. Exercise before your surgeons time of suggested rest has passed is moving backward, partial to full destruction of the
surgery is possible. After the surgeons time of rest is completed we must exercise every day of the year! Beginning slowly and calculate, progressing
to higher levels each work out, week and month. A higher level could mean as little as adding 30 seconds to a walk each day. Our body begins atrophy
with in 18 hours, very small but very real. How can we reverse this process if we sit and wait for pain to disappear? We cant!
Here lies my opinion. An opinion that works 100% of the time (assuming a semi-healthy body) Eat strictly every day! Study nutrition! Exercise every
day! Study exercise executing an intelligent progressive plan! Sleep 7.5 – 8.5 hours each day. Read 2 books each month on any topic of interest!
Realize that you are special where your accumulated knowledge and experiences can be used to motivate others above their current level. Ask older,
wiser people if they will allow you to associate with then to become better from their experiences and wisdom. Enough.
Hey Runs…… Sorry for the somewhat diverted dissertation, I got lost and kept going. Does this answer your question? Post away.
Davy-Boi…… Sorry to unleash this way my friend, as you know Im strongly opinionated. Your gonna use this “set back” as a learning step to take you to
the next level of health. Go Get'em
Randy
well, just taking one day at a time and Praying our Great Country "Gets Back On It's Feet"
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runs
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Hey Davy........Let us know how you are doing....All of us here love ya bud.
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runs
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Hey Davy,
I think you have a great plan and hope and wish you all the very best with it. I know you will be getting better an better,
Take Care bud............always a friend....runs
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Chelle
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Location: CA
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Hi Davy,
I keep wondering how you're doing? Are things looking up for you yet?
Hi Randy - have you been in touch with Davy again - is he O.K.?
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Davy1
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Journal Post
Hey everyone.
Just so you know I am going to post in my journal section if you want to keep up to date. Sorry for not posting in awhile.
Life is extremely hard right now.
Davy
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